> What's 'fairness' got to do with travel restrictions? > Playing by the letter rather than the spirit of the rules I'm relatively unrestricted, so I have sympathy for my city-bound neighbours to whom I would willingly extend the spirit rather than the letter of travel restrictions. If the rationale behind the charge of reckless conduct was endangerment of the MRT then I think that's a very slippery slope. In 1326, a sheriff was appointed for the Scottish parts of Argyll. > I fancy a walk in to Beinn Each and Stuc a'Chroin from Bridge of Keltie if the current lockdown extends into the spring, I haven't been up them from the south - but I'll need a long day for it, I'm struggling a wee bit, at the moment. > I'm not sure we should be discouraging people from calling out MRT by insta fining them or shaming them on social media. But I do really love going new places, planning trips, chasing the weather to make the most of it, and seeing new things - and it's really hard to do much of that just now; the loss of the ability to make those plans and have those things to look forward to is what's hitting me hardest in lockdown. Equally folk large local authorities e.g. The friend had copied all the relevant guidance from Scotgov website to show. The south of the peninsula is split into three forks by Loch Striven and Loch Riddon (Loch Ruel). Especially during covid, this possibility, should be acted upon, and stay the f*ck at home. After Alba united with Moray, over the course of the century, it became Scotland. Or worse still someone exercising >5 miles from home comes across a casualty / accident and doesn't call 999 for fear of being fined? Don't think I saw anyone apart from two mountainbikers near the end. There was quickly an alternative online structure established - online chess was already a thing, so it was easy enough to get people such as me to start playing it - but it's almost all been individual tournaments rather than team stuff. Interesting corner generally. Yes it is good that they were led to safety and yes people get into trouble all the time on the hills. How many people had to do something different because these people couldn't do what might be considered the right thing? As a Stirling resident (very eastern edge of the town itself), this aspect of it worries me in terms of my own activities. The climb took us 5.5 hours, but we are used to hillwalking (despite my struggles!) Whoever this was, went looking for confrontation without having done that. They travelled further than allowed for their exercise and got caught. Other ferries run from Portavadie in the west to Tarbert in Kintyre, and from Colintraive in the south to Rhubodach on the Isle of Bute. I haven't read it and now I don't have the time to either. Still, Kingseat this morning was glorious. > We went up from Dalvorlich, and it was a good approach. Yeah, I think that's probably right - and I'm somewhere in between those two. Surely, if it's a real possibility, then there's an anticipation. He's a keen skier but has been restricted to the odd outing in Kirkhill forest while near neighbours can head for the southern Cairngorms, Lochnagar etc. Aberdeenshire, Highland etc are free travel double, triple, quadruple that distance and are doing so perfectly legally as they happen to be living in a massive local authority. However, the county boundary is on my drive, so my house is in Clacks and dustbin in P&K. Do we need to get to specific hills, though? But a fine and a couple of days in the Daily Record stocks seems more proportional. The Kyle line draws a wide arc from Inverness to the shores of Loch Alsh, taking in spectacular Highland scenery – and finishing with magnificent views of Skye. It's not that simple though, is it? These split the southern half of Cowal into three narrower peninsulas; on the west, the Kilfinan peninsula, and on the east, the Toward peninsula, which is also isolated from the north of Cowal, by the Holy Loch. When you zoom in on a map more detail does appear, including contour lines, but it’s still not OS standard. I have emailed the relevant dept at the Scot Gov. > About time the forum got rid of the dislike button IMO. > Everyone sensible knows that inviting dates back to your house for the first time has a small but real possibility of having a bad outcome (though I didn't envisage that they were beaten to death). Here's much later on Saturday, and about half way into your first pic. Clan traditions argue that Anrothan's lands were passed down to a descendant named Aodha Alainn O'Neil, who had the following sons: Excavations carried out at Castle MacEwen showed the site had several stages of development before it was the defended medieval homestead of the MacEwens; at first there was a palisaded enclosure, and then a promontory fort with a timber rampart. Very conflicted by the rules! At least the five-mile rule from last year was a bit more egalitarian, making everyone equally (ish) as miserable. The various paths were all a bit soggy/icy yesterday - glad I took a stick - but it was a good pottering-about hour. Sure there are idiots every year that get into trouble on the hills and a good chunk of them really actively got themselves into trouble by dint of their own stupidity but I'd really rather they were rescued safe and sound rather than found later dead and frozen.Save your bile for the f*ckwits at parties. The idea that folk could come to harm as they're scared of calling for help due to a serious criminal charge being levied is awful. Probably worth noting that the rules are pretty clear up here and Ben Lomond is one of the most popular, busy and accessible hills from Glasgow. The northern part of the peninsula is covered by the Argyll Forest Park managed by Forestry and Land Scotland. I'm not sure we should be discouraging people from calling out MRT by insta fining them or shaming them on social media. And as pancakeandchips highlights, their reluctance to call for help at the appropriate time might actually further endanger those who do eventually respond. A smaller cist in the centre contained a bowl, burnt bone, charcoal and flint chips, and in the clay below them, the remains of a burial. Everyone knows that an accident is a small but real possibility whenever they drive or go hill-walking. I would not expect any exceptions to be made if I had an accident. I'm in a very similar position to you, but with the whole of Perth and Kinross to play in legally but so far restricting myself this year to the Ochils using the 5 mile thing to mostly start from Ckackmannanshire. Reminds me of a night I spent, sober, in Sauchiehall Street. [7] The peninsula is separated from Knapdale by Loch Fyne, and from Inverclyde and North Ayrshire to the east by the Firth of Clyde. I don't think they're that dissimilar — they're both activities currently frowned upon that involve the emergency services having to attend. I once met an Asda van a long way up the private Glen Tilt road. Remember, access to the hills matters a lot to us - but most people have other wishes and concerns. Trial by media? I'm taking 'local' to mean anything I could reasonably get to without using the car; if I had nothing worthwhile within that range I'd allow myself to go a bit further. > It definitely was before the lockdown was tightened, but I don't feel comfortable using it fully just now, we've been asked to stay local. Other roads are secondary B roads, narrow roads or tracks. It's not on the Derbyshire police level (funnily enough I'm from Derbyshire originally so all this stuff interests me), but it does feel like there's a level of uncertainty. > Save your bile for the f*ckwits at parties. > Agree, given all of mainland Scotland is in the same tier I think the Scottish Government to change the rue to something like, you can travel up to 10 miles to exercise to alleviate the clear unfairness of the current system. Surely, if it's a real possibility, then there's an anticipation. Death is a strong punishment for what is a minor, if very topical, misdemeanour. That would be my concern too. On Sunday, just for a change, I did...... er........ Ben Cleuch for sunrise and then down over Ben Ever. This left Alba with no part of Argyll except Cowal, and the land between Loch Awe and Loch Fyne. The previous regulation of 5 miles from home/local community made more sense and was at least equal in it's application, though I can see that some kind of consideration should be given to those living in cities etc so that they can access open space. There's always Slochd and the Strathnairn hills. Aberdeenshire is a huge "local authority" area with loads of climbing, walking, ski and bike trails, extending beyond Braemar, while Aberdeen City is a tiny one. Add to this they decided to ignore the rules on a Sunday with blazing sunshine and perfect winter connies. Currently not leaving sofa (I work from home) except to play nursemaid to horse. Prior to this, little is known, except as revealed archaeologically, though the region may have been part of the Pictish kingdom of Fortriu. Sorry, I have absolutely no idea what you are on about. I do have a P&K postcode and Kinross is my posttown. Would it in a road accident? Each council area does contain the facilities most people need to carry on their lives (you're still allowed to travel elsewhere to work if you need to), they allow most a few options as to where to go, and they're already defined as areas. Fair enough I think. I'm like that - I tend to think of it as still having the "runner's mentality" even though my running days are long gone (local, regular, out in all weathers regardless, slotting exercise into bits and bobs of normal life), and with having the Ochils pretty much on the doorstep I've been able to keep fit and more or less sane. Much of Cowal was once held by the Lamonts. Some might have a valid point that others have not considered. In simple terms what they did is called "taking the p155"... Loch Morlich, the north side of Cairngorms, & Ben Wyvis, are all a short drive (within 30miles radius) from Inverness & are all IN the Highland Council area. When I was at the stables today, they looked pretty scoured. William Caulfeild succeeded Wade in 1740 and constructed the road from Dumbarton via Tarbet to Inveraray through the Cowal where it is known as the "Rest and Be Thankful". I've gone in from Artney a few times and also over Meall Leathan Dhail, plus last year's Milton of Cambus route. For a start there's public money in it in Scotland these days, plus as someone who has worked as both a journalist and researcher on hill matters it's been noticeable how reporting of accidents/rescues has become less good in recent years, and it wouldn't be ideal to see things murkified further. Eh? > Tappoch Broch is surprisingly good, isn't it? It is separated from the Isle of Bute by the deep narrow straits of the Kyles of Bute. Given that Braeleny is the closest sensible start-point for Vorlich/Stuc from Stirling, if we were to get into trouble for doing that it'd be worrying. Hillwalker lost in fog, decides to chance it, and has to subsequently be rescued from steep ground? They are from the Fife Council area & Ben Lomond is in the Stirling Council area, & the Ben Lomond car park is 44miles from the nearest Fife Council boundary (Kincardine bridge). Choosing to do so and then needing rescued, and then being fined, is just a bad combination of circumstances I hope most hillwalkers won't experience. Considering it in any other way is just emotional and banal. Nowt to do with that, it was about the tautology of the sentence, and of course the logic. The remaining parts of Dal Riata attracted the name Argyle (later Argyll), in reference to their ethnicity. The arbitrary nature of the restrictions makes it hard to be annoyed with people breaking the rules to access the hills atm. The Loch Lomond and The Trossachs National Park extends into Cowal. Maybe a rebrand, at least? I thought it was locked a month or two back when we were doing a Callander Crags circuit - but I could be mistaken. And might it have consequences that could last beyond the coronavirus restrictions? On the other hand, they knew the rules and chose to break them. I asked them where they got that info from & they stated its on the Scot Gov website. However, the only actual additional covid risk I can see for a single instance (minus mrt involvement of course!) I don't need to know; neither am I interested. Or show the name of who ‘liked’ or ‘disliked’? Sure there are idiots every year that get into trouble on the hills and a good chunk of them really actively got themselves into trouble by dint of their own stupidity but I'd really rather they were rescued safe and sound rather than found later dead and frozen. I'm seriously thinking of illegally driving ten miles down the road to save £10 on filling my car with diesel (my local filling station is a motorway service station with rip off prices). [24], The Loch Lomond and Cowal Way stretches for over 57 miles through Cowal, from Portavadie on the southeastern shore of Loch Fyne leading to Inveruglas on Loch Lomond, in the Loch Lomond and The Trossachs National Park. I feel like I live in Mugdock Park. Hear pronunciation Press to hear pronunciation. Before the lockdown it was very different. Or do you "stay the f*ck" in bed all day? However if people are somewhere they should not be during lockdown, then they will need to asses and deal with the situation they have put themselves in, at the time. Horse being lame at the moment isn't helpful. Reporting restrictions of rescues is a whole other can of worms, though. Various friends - as mentioned upthread - have been going to B category hills without a problem. If the Scottish Government want to minimise travel a simple no more than X miles form home would be easier. There's always the north face of Jura. So for all of us. Following local government reforms in the 19th century, the traditional provinces were formally abolished, in favour of counties aligned with sheriffdoms, so Cowal became merely a part of the county of Argyll. As yet (since late Nov) I've not done anything of that sort, even though I think I'd not be at much risk of being stopped and I'd certainly be able to argue my corner if I was. I did miss the Lakes, though - that's kind of a home from home and 2020 was the first year without at least one visit - usually multiple - since 1995. Have however in recent years done several Stuc-only outings from Braeleny, and also a very good circuit of the Corbett and its SE tops followed by Stuc from there as well - again easier since the new bridges and tracks went in. Probably again tomorrow........ Email Address: (you will also be emailed a Cc: [carbon copy] of this message). Good luck with the thread. And might it have consequences that could last beyond the coronavirus restrictions? If the casualty is reluctant because they think they might get a fine then they might wait till it's dark, conditions are worse and their condition has deteriorated. > Our police officer neighbour describes her saturday night Glasgow shifts as mostly talking patiently to very unreasonable people, pleading with them to go home so that she doesn't have to arrest them. > One thing I notice about the story is that, whilst they were in very clear breach of the coronavirus restrictions, they were charged - "in connection with culpable and reckless conduct". I guess the way I'm handling the restrictions fits with "stay local" aspect in that I've thus far not driven ten miles from the house (whereas going to Ben Ledi, say, is 19 miles, and Braeleny is 18), but it is all a bit odd and, like others, I have sympathy for the keen hill people locked up inside small urban council areas and basically stuck whereas I'm wandering around on the Ochils to my heart's content. A ten- or even five-mile limit is likely to keep them reasonably content and gives them an endless supply of stuff to do. > I'm really uncomfortable with the use of the reckless and culpable charge - what was reckless? I've done them as a round from Braeleny quite a few times, although not since the bridge(s) went back in after the 2004 cloudburst. General Wade was tasked with implementing a programme to build military roads from north-central Scotland through the Highlands to the forts in the Great Glen. > How many people had to do something different because these people couldn't do what might be considered the right thing? I thought it was locked a month or two back when we were doing a Callander Crags circuit - but I could be mistaken. Ha! > In hill terms - be it walking or climbing or whatever - the people who seem best equipped to cope with the ongoing restrictions are those who happily stay local anyway and are largely content to cover the same ground again and again.......... Was up Ben Cleuch 82 times last year (most I've ever done) and had 144 Ochil outings overall, and didn't at all feel Ochiled-out by the end of it. The coast is mostly rocky and the few beaches are mostly shingle and gravel except on Loch Fyne:[12] the longest sandy beach is at Ardentinny on Loch Long. Anyway, off up Ben Cleuch this afternoon for the sunset. You could use the 5 miles leeway to get about as far as Mugdock reservoir, and walk in the West end of the Campsies starting there, Earl's Seat would still be a reasonable walk from there. Mugdock's nice (although very busy) - but I was more suggesting it as the launch point for a walk somewhere a bit quieter and hillier. It is not a good situation, but I don't think there is an easy solution. Of course it is. > Eh? [14] The other A roads are the A815 which links the A83 with Dunoon via Strachur where the A886 leaves it and heads south via Glendaruel to Colintraive where the ferry connects it to the Isle of Bute and the A8003 which links Tighnabruaich to the A886. I actually think we are in agreement - they should get help. Up here in Scotland you have to stay in your local Council area & are allowed to drive upto 5miles into the neighbouring Council area to start exercise. Just outside Inverness lies Dingwall, a pretty market town that’s perfect for a stop off or a connection to the Far North Line. [22], During the civil war between Royalists and Puritans, the Campbells had sided with the Puritans, so following their defeat at the Battle of Inverlochy, Clan Lamont took the opportunity to push back the borders of Campbell control. We either stick strictly within the rules laid down or we each deal with any situations on the ground that we find ourselves in. At Colintraive the Caledonian MacBrayne vehicle ferry takes five minutes to cross the 400-yard (370-metre) strait to Rhubodach on Bute. One example is a Bronze Age cairn from between about 2000 BC and 800 BC is situated close to the summit of Creag Evanachan, 195 metres above sea level overlooking Loch Fyne. So this very much has a look of criminalising the fact of needing a rescue. > How low risk would an activity have to be for you to consider it acceptable? > It's not a minor misdemeanor right at this time though, is it? I gather the officer didn't like this and, by the sounds of it (second hand info) genuinely sounded offended he did not get the upper hand. On International Women's Day, we'd like to encourage more women to pitch writing ideas to UKClimbing.com and UKHillwalking.com. It is a very popular hillwalk and its position on the edge of the Highlands makes it an excellent viewpoint. I shall probably drive particularly carefully. They eventually retreated from high on the Stuc ridge with daylight getting a bit short, but there was no mention of the gate having been locked when I was told the story, so I'm assuming it was OK then too. [16] A service operated by Caledonian MacBrayne connects Dunoon to Gourock in Inverclyde where there is easy access the Abellio ScotRail train service to Glasgow Central railway station. I had a really good long summer's day in June walking in from the Milton of Cambus side by the windfarm tracks. > Maybe some reporting restrictions might have helped i.e. When the Irish invaded the region, it became part of their kingdom of Dal Riata. > Is it any different to a bank robber crashing the getaway car and being reluctant to call the AA, the police or whatever? They were fined for breaking Scottish Covid rules which, unlike England's, are very precise. This is where the rules in Scotland make little sense currently; they have traveled c.45miles and are now being charged under a stupidly severe (for the offense) law rather than the actual covid regs (£30 fine). and who decides?? But there is some risk (breakdowns, rescues, and there's probably still a small chance of outdoor spread in busier places) - so I think we should be at least be asking ourselves whether we really need to drive past more local options, even if we're legally allowed to. It was good fun - and my lot won, hooray - but it still wasn't the same as being in an actual room with actual real opponents and moving actual pieces around on an actual board. > Unfortunately the present travel restrictions for exercise do not minimise travel. If so, what message does that send to others? So I can fully understand folk being prepared to deviate from compliance with it. The landscape is mountainous, the high ground dominated by moorland, peat mosses and the forest that often extends down the sides of the sea lochs to the water's edge. Everyone knows that an accident is a small but real possibility whenever they drive or go hill-walking. Which way did you go into Uamh Bheag? [13] The only lowland areas are around the coast where most of the settlement is found, particularly around Dunoon Cowal's largest settlement on the Firth of Clyde. Aberdeenshire is a huge "local authority" area with loads of climbing, walking, ski and bike trails, extending beyond Braemar, while Aberdeen City is a tiny one. If you did I am confident that there's a good defence. Next week I have to go to Kendal and stay in a hotel so I can recertify a climbing ticket. Cowal's underlying geology is made up largely of resistant metamorphic rocks, but south of the Highland Boundary Fault part of the Toward peninsula is composed of sedimentary rocks. It’s conveniently close to Glasgow, too. What's 'fairness' got to do with travel restrictions? I tidied up the Wainwright loose ends in the middle part of last decade, but that was closely linked with Lakes family stuff - I've not really properly hunted down a hill list since finishing the Munros in 2007. The fact that they traveled across an arbitrary line on a map - in which case why have the hundreds of other people caught doing so not been similarly charged? Great conditions right round, including the walk back through Dollar and Harviestoun. > Death is a strong punishment for what is a minor, if very topical, misdemeanour. It would not be fool proof as there would be good and lawful reasons why someone needed to travel more than the X miles but it would help to reduce unnecessary travel.
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